The Blue Orchard - Discussion # 4

(Hey all! Welcome back to our last discussion on The Blue Orchard! We will start our first discussion on Something Borrowed on June 3rd! Lisa kindly led the discussion for this last discussion.  I've really liked hearing how everyone has had different feelings on this book.  I liked it, but I like talking to other people who didn't like certain parts or characters because then it lets you think more about the intentions of the book/author and that is one of the reason I like our reading group! Thanks again this month for Kelly and Lisa for their guest posts.  If you ever want to help out, send me a comment/email and we will make it happen.)

Greetings, it’s Lisa of Lisa’s Yarns!  I’ll be discussing the last section of The Blue Orchard.  At the start of this last section, Verna and Dr. Crampton get arrested and the trial takes place.  

Before I get into my questions, I’ll share my general view on the book.  For whatever reason, I never was able to feel much of a sense of empathy towards the characters in this book.  To some extent, I thought that Verna became this spoiled, materialistic person.  She emphasized how much she spent on clothes – even though Dr. Crampton warned her not to flaunt her wealth.  I didn’t feel like she was assisting in these procedures because she felt it was the right thing to do for these women – she did it because it was extremely lucrative for her.  I should also probably mention that my dislike for the book is largely influenced by my stance on abortions.  I don’t want to even get into that whole discussion because I am not a fan of talking about religion or politics, but I felt like it was a disclosure worth making – mostly because I don’t think it would have mattered how likable the characters were, I probably still would have struggled with the book.

Now for the questions!

1. Were you surprised that Verna didn’t testify at the 2^nd trial? 
2. Were you surprised that, after going through the trial, Dr. Crampton wanted to continue doing those procedures?  Do you think he wanted to continue to do the procedures because he cared about safety and well-being of women seeking that procedure, or because of the money?
3. Verna really seems to “find God” at the end of the book.  Do you think this plot twist fit in with the book?  Was it believable to you?

Thanks again Lisa!!! Links to the other three discussions 1 , 2 , 3 !  And thanks to all who participate!

The Blue Orchard - Discussion # 3

(Hello everyone! This week's discussion is hosted by the wonderful Kelly! This is the third section of The Blue Orchard and I hope you are all enjoying it.  By the way, you can always go back and comment on the previous discussions, as I am always checking back and responding.  It's nice to talk about things we read.  I really like what Kelly has to say about forgiveness and how it relates to the book.  Totally, not something I picked up on but reading what she has to say makes me think more about what the book said and different meanings.  To catch up here are links to Discussion 1 and Discussion 2.  Next week, Lisa will finish us up with The Blue Orchard.  Don't forget to vote in the sidebar for June's Group Read!)

Hi, it's Kelly again from She Wears a Red Sox Cap. This time I am leading the discussion of pages 193-290 of The Blue Orchard. I planned to summarize the important events in this section but I'm having trouble keeping everyone and everything straight in this book so it's probably best if I focus mainly on the discussion so as not to confuse anyone! This section got a little political because of the situation with Crampton, and I think it was probably lack of effort/caring that made it hard for me to pay attention here. On a personal level though, Verna decides to stop going out for drinks with Dewey. She also learns from Dora's boyfriend Chet that Dewey has been cheating on her. Dewey also decides to move and become a farmer so they are no longer really living together. Also, Verna's son Sam joins the military after a fight with her and Dewey. On the job front, Verna loses her first patient and is very affected by this. Crampton begins to lose his influence and Verna discovers he has raised his price without telling her or raising what she receives for it. He is also investigated by the IRS for not paying taxes. Finally, at the end of this section Sam sends Verna a long letter about his time in Korea and signs it "Love, Sam." At the end of this section, Verna is arrested.

I feel like I should say that I don't love this book. I love the idea of it, meaning that the author did interviews with his grandmother to tell a true story about her life. I like the historic aspect of it and learning more about that time period and the people who struggled through it. On the other hand I am just not loving Verna as a character. One of the parts of this section that I liked was the overwhelming theme of forgiveness. For example, Sally (Dewey's daughter) actually forgives her father for leaving her at an orphanage after her mother passed away! It seems as though Sam may forgive Verna for leaving him as a child as well, based on his kind letters to his mom. Verna also mentions at one point believing that Crampton forgives white people, even though he still has to eat in his hotel room or stay in different hotels because black and white people are not allowed at the same places.

Verna, on the other hand, doesn't seem like she forgives much at all, or that she's really learned at all from her hardships and experiences. Some quotes that really stuck out to me:

"How dare she be angry? Doesn't she know she's lucky to have me as a customer?" (page 267)

"I'm forty-two years old and suddenly aware that despite my life's hardships, I've enjoyed certain privileges not open to all, not the least of which is the opportunity to feel better than someone whose skin is darker than mine. The shame burns, because I now must recognize how much I resent having my advantage over a Negro questioned."

In the second quote it does seem she is at least recognizing how unfair her thoughts are. However, she still holds a lot of anger towards people in her life. I guess even though I feel a lot of sympathy for people who have had many hardships in their lives. In the end, I want a good success story and I want them to overcome these obstacles. Sure, Verna has become "successful" in that she makes a lot of money, but she is really not a very nice person in the end. Well, by the end... I mean the end of this section! I haven't read past it yet :)

Here are some questions for you guys:

Do you feel that Verna has learned from her negative experiences or have they just made her bitter and/or feel like she deserves more? Does she forgive those responsible for her hardships?

Do you feel Verna is successful because she has accomplished more than her mom?

Do you think Mr. Wertzes tears were the result of regret? Was he asking her forgiveness? Do you imagine his change of attitude was because of his change of position in life?

Do you, as a reader, forgive Verna for her questionable choices? Do you forgive Dewey for his choices? Would you forgive either of them if you were one of their children?

Thanks Kelly! Next, Friday we will be over Book Three Chapter 15 - the end.  Can't wait to hear all of you!

The Blue Orchard - Discussion # 2

Welcome back to our second discussion on The Blue Orchard by Jackson Taylor.  Any and all are welcome to participate.  This discussion covers from pg. 96 through pg. 192.

When we left off, Verna had just been booted back home but didn't stay there for long.  I am amazed at the amount of jobs she had.  It really seems like it was quite easy to get a job back then, even though it did get harder with the Depression.  I really enjoyed following along on her journey to become a nurse but found that sometimes I couldn't remember a name or place who someone was, when they were just referred to with their first name, and other times I got confused because they referred to someone (like Norm) by their full name and I didn't understand the need.  Oh, well.

"I stare away from him with blank eyes and a sudden dislike because I know that he cannot stop me no matter what ridicule passes his lips." pg. 120

Speaking of Norm, I was getting sooo frustrated with her relationship with him.  She knew he was awful and that she wasn't going to marry him, so WHY DID SHE TAKE FOREVER TO break up with him? Though, she was still young and naive and still had a lot of growing up to do.  The Verna by the end of this section would not have put up with him for long at all.  Yet, she puts up with Dewey who doesn't do anything for his children and appears to be an alcoholic.

It's also a little alarming, knowing what is coming that their business, even though illegal is apparently known to EVERYONE.  Yet, somehow it all remains kosher until it isn't anymore.  And that very angry patient Verna had at the end of this section makes me wonder, how many others wouldn't have turned on them in a New York Minute to save themselves from some kind of trouble.  Yet, Dr. Crampton (he he Cramp) does have friends in high places.

Questions from the Reading Guide (Simon & Schuster's site) and from myself..

1. "There is no substitute for character and you never know where you'll find it.  I weep at how many deaths we all endure before our own takes us." pg. 109 What does this quote mean to you?

2. Do you think Sam has an idea of what his mom's job is? If so, how do you think he feels about it, especially now that he is living with her?

3. Compare Verna's opinion of Dr. Crampton before she meets him to her view of him during their first encounter. How does their relationship change over the years, both on a professional and a personal level?

4. Verna admits to Dewey, "I don't think the world of men. They've always made me suffer" (page 158). Discuss Verna's encounters and relationships with the various men in her life—Mr. Wertz, Murphy, Charles Dennis, Norm, and Dewey. Why does she continue to see Charles Dennis throughout the years despite his deception?

5. What motivates Verna to succeed? Why is she able to rise above her circumstances in a way that her mother was never able to do? How much is Verna impacted by her mother's attitude toward Buckley versus her daughters?

Thanks for participating! I can't wait to hear what you all have to say in the comments! Next week, the discussion will be led by Kelly from She Wears a Red Sox Cap . Our discussion will cover pgs. 193- pg. 290.  Can't wait!

The Blue Orchard - Discussion #1

Welcome to the first discussion of Jackson Taylor's The Blue Orchard! The Blue Orchard is our May Group Read and any and all are welcome to participate.  Every Friday and May we talk about a different section.  This first discussion covers the Prologue through page 96 or the end of chapter 24.

First off, I am loving it so far! I really wish I could focus more, not be distracted by the Internet because in theory I should already be done with this book, but I keep just grabbing bits of time to read, but every time I read I get sucked in!

Brief recap/ My Random Thoughts: Verna is forced to leave school at 14 to take care of her family, even though she has an older brother who is a big waste of space.  (LAME!) She works for a family on a farm, where the man of the farm is scum and treats her badly.. Again, LAME.  Then she works for a roadside restaurant out of town, moves and works in Reading, works in Harrisburg and then Philadelphia before she is sent home again.  This is all before she is in her mid-twenties! That is crazy.  And that is just talking about her working life. 

She definitely has been unlucky in the male department with not being 19 and having had an abortion because of a married man and a child with a married man.  I feel bad for her, but you'd think with as smart as she is, she'd be a little smarter with men.  But she is very very young and it is a different time.

Quotes that resonated...

"Her dress is spotted with milk and porridge and I know she feels ashamed at not looking washed in front of a schoolteacher." pg. 11 

-Huh. How far our level of respect towards teachers has fallen, no?? I mean have you seen how parents show up for parent teacher conferences or to pick their kids up from school? Or how they TALK to teachers? LAME.

"I could barely believe it when your ma told me that you were in trouble.  You always seemed like a leader in your family.  I guess you discovered the hard way that a girl who's sneaky finds consequences.  One sin leads to another." - Aunt Varnie pgs. 45&46

- WTF dude? I really find it hard to believe that even women (especially in her FAMILY) were naive enough to think that SHE asked for the trouble or was OKAY with her trouble.  Riiiight.  Yeah, let's send a 14 year old girl to work on a farm with a perverted man and see how it turns out. 

Taken from conversations with Jackson Taylor (also from the Simon & Shuster site..)

The Blue Orchard is based on your grandmother's life. Why was it important for you to share Verna's story?
The lives of people we come from are filled with exquisite, concrete clues that can be examined to understand childhood, the world, and ourselves, and to recognize how many ways we resemble the rest of our species. The study of the real record adds perspective to the ways anyone might look at the youth of their parents or grandparents.

During the years of research, the historian's voice in me kept questioning: How? Why? My grandmother wasn't easily impressed by people, so I wanted to know the nature of this man who'd earned so much respect.

How did you make certain to present an honest portrait of Verna, both her good qualities and her flaws? Was there ever a tendency to gloss over certain aspects or incidents?
Verna could be deeply reflective about herself. I tried to weigh out and imagine those personal ruminations. It is also important for any writer to recognize that it is never going to be possible to tell "the" truth. The best we can aspire to is "a" truth, or a version of the truth as we might happen to see it.

How would you describe The Blue Orchard—and Verna—to people who have not yet read it?
It's a novel about a woman who wrestles with adversity amid a particular time and history that is difficult for our country to come to terms with.

Questions (some taken and adapted from Simon&Shuster's Reading Group Guide)

1. In the Prologue, Verna candidly describes herself and the circumstances of her arrest, even admitting some of her flaws. What was your impression of her after reading the Prologue? In what ways did this initial introduction of Verna influence how you viewed her through this first section?

2. Do you think John and Delia will come back into the picture? How do you suppose Verna is going to get into nursing?

3. What do you think is going to happen to Verna now that she has left Philadelphia?

Thanks for participating! Next Friday we will discuss from Chapter 25 (pg.96) through Book Two's Chapter 18 (pg. 192). 

Can't wait to hear from you!

May's Group Read: The Blue Orchard by Jackson Taylor

From goodreads..

On the eve of the Great Depression, Verna Krone, the child of Irish immigrants, must leave the eighth grade and begin working as a maid to help support her family. Her employer takes inappropriate liberties, and as Verna matures, it seems as if each man she meets is worse than the last. Through sheer force of will and a few chance encounters, she manages to teach herself to read and becomes a nurse. But Verna’s new life falls to pieces when she is arrested for assisting a black doctor with "illegal surgeries." As the media firestorm rages, Verna reflects on her life while awaiting trial.

 

Based on the life of the author’s own grandmother and written after almost three hundred interviews with those involved in the real-life scandal, The Blue Orchard is as elegant and moving as it is exact and convincing. It is a dazzling portrayal of the changes America underwent in the first fifty years of the twentieth century. Readers will be swept into a time period that in many ways mirrors our own. Verna Krone’s story is ultimately a story of the indomitable nature of the human spirit—and a reminder that determination and self-education can defy the deforming pressures that keep women and other disenfranchised groups down.

I am really excited to read this one! I believe I shall be starting tonight!

Discussions for The Blue Orchard will be:

Discussion 1 (Prologue through chapter 24) pg. 96 – May 6th

Discussion 2 (chapter 25 through Book Two’s Chapter 18) pg. 192 – May 13th

Discussion 3 (book two chapter 19 through book three chapter 15) pg. 290 – May  20th

Discussion 4 (book three chapter 15 through the end) – May 27th

If you would like to guest post one of our discussions this month I would really appreciate it! The little darling's due date is May 18th so it may get a little dicey if I go into labor early/before I finish the book! If you would like to, all I ask is that you leave a comment here and if I don't have your email, leave that here as well.  I would need your post at least by the Wednesday before the Friday we are to discuss it.  That way, if I do go into labor/have a baby I will have plenty of time to get it posted, hopefully.

Happy Reading! Who plans on joining us this month?